Thomas Sowell gives simple explanation to why women earn less than men:
Q: We’ve frequently heard, and will hear much more I am sure if Hillary is the Democratic nominee, that women make 76 cents for every dollar a man makes. Can you give us a basic rundown of why that discrepancy exists?
A: There are lots of reasons. Men and women do not work the same number of hours. They do not work in the same occupations. They do not work continuously the same, and so on.
You know, if it was really true that you could hire a woman for three quarters of what you could hire a man with exactly the same qualifications, then employers would be crazy not to hire all women. It would be insane to hire men. Not only would it be insane, it would probably put them out of the business because the ones that were smart enough to hire women would have such a cost advantage that it would be really hard for the others to compete.
Sowell’s explanation is elegant, brilliant and entirely logical! Why didn’t I think of it myself???
Sowell continues:
There are lots of gross differences between men and women and other groups and some of them shocked me when I first started doing the research. For example, I found that young male doctors make considerably more than young female doctors. But, when I dug into it a little deeper, I discovered that young male doctors work an average of 500 hours a year more than young female doctors. Obviously, a doctor that works 500 extra hours is going to make more money than the other doctor.
So the answer to the question: do women earn less than man, is YES, but there are good reasons why that is the case. Contrary to the commonly advanced liberal theory of “sexist and unjust male-dominated world”, other factors are at play. Men work more hours and spend more time in the workforce, while women take time off to raise children and favour part time employment. My wife, who earns more per hour than me, chooses to work only three days a week to look after our child. Her annual salary is lower than mine even though she would earn more if she worked full time. There is no conspiracy at play, it is only fair that those that work more get higher rewards.
This is not to say that sexism doesn’t exist and that women are always treated fairly. But as a general rule it is inconceivable that employers could hire a female worker for the three quarter of what they would have to pay a man with the same qualifications.
The whole interview is worth a read.
Bettina Arndt (female) has more on why women earn less than men. Again no conspiracy.
UPDATE:
Professor Mark Wooden of Melbourne University agrees:
Melbourne University social researcher Mark Wooden said men were earning on average 15 per cent more than women because they put in more time at the workplace.
“All high achievers in all walks of life … put in long hours into their activity,” Professor Wooden said.
“It’s (the pay equity gap) got a lot to do with the fact that women are not prepared to work longer hours.”
…
The only male taking part in a National Press Club panel discussion about the pay equity gap, Prof Wooden’s remarks drew gasps from the mostly female audience. [
]
….
Prof Wooden said closing the gap would require a change in the traditional family structure.
“The only way we can achieve this is if we have lots of role reversals, lots of men behaving like women and lots of women behaving like men.”
“I don’t think women in Australia want that, I don’t think that women anywhere in the world want that.”
I think that is completely ridiculous. Women should get as much money starting out as a man does regardless whether or not she does or does not have children, or any other factor. The thing that should count is that she can do the exact same job as well as a man and that is what they should get paid based upon.
Dear Ashley,
If you read what I wrote properly you will realise that women do get paid the same as men providing they work in the same job, have the same level of qualifications and work experience, and are prepared to work the same number of hours as men.
Sowell clearly explains that if it was true that employers could hire women with same qualifications and pay them less than men, they would just hire women. This would reduce their costs and drive employers hiring men out of business. Clearly this is not the case.
As for the childbearing, it is not that women have children that makes them lesser paid. It is that they take time off to have children. Let’s look at two employees both aged 30, both have started work in the same company 10 years ago. They have the same qualifications and started off on the same pay. The only difference is that female worker had two children and missed two years of work on parental leave to raise her children. So even though they are the same age and spent the same time working for the same employer, the male has 10 years work experience and the female only 8. Why shouldn’t the worker that has 2 years more experience be paid more?
I hope this helps to clear up the confusion.
Regards,
Latteologist
Yes, your explanations do make sense, however, I believe there is more to it than just “hours.” Even if women work as many hours as men, there is still a likely chance that they will get earn less than men. Starting in 1964, women only got paid 59 cents of a man’s dollar, and what makes you think that has all changed now. Now, women only make around 76 cents of a man’s dollar. The percent has gone up, but yet it is still uneven. The reasons are numerous; social inequality, sexism, and the fact that the steroptypical women should stay at home. Men think they have some kind of superioity over women, when in reality women are just important, and the fact we get paid less than men, will NEVER change that.
Dear Jackie,
Thanks for your response. However, I have to point out that while claiming that my explanations “do make sense” you go on to completely contradict them.
You wrote: “Even if women work as many hours as men, there is still a likely chance that they will get earn less than men. Starting in 1964, women only got paid 59 cents of a man’s dollar, and what makes you think that has all changed now. Now, women only make around 76 cents of a man’s dollar”.
Statistically, you are correct but with every statistic the devil is in the detail. Let’s say we look at 1000 women and 1000 men. The average wage for these women is $760 per week, the average wage for men is $1000 per week. Statistically women earn 76 cents for 1 men’s dollar. Shock horror!
But if we look closely at the statistics we may notice that men and women work in different professions. There are some very highly paid jobs in hazardous industries such as construction, power generation and mining that very few women want to do. We may find that men gravitate towards technical fields such as IT and engineering while women often choose lower paid jobs in social services, nursing and so on. We may also notice that men and women have different working patterns with men working longer hours while women take prolonged periods of leave to have children and more often work part time in order to care for their families. For example, my wife earns a better hourly rate than me but chooses (and loves) working three days a week so that she can stay home with our child. Because of this her annual wage is lower than mine, even though she would be earning more than me if she worked full time. Unfair? Hardly.
It is a fallacy to look at the average male and female earnings and scream sexism. The only way to compare wages fairly is to look at a male and a female with the same qualifications, working in the same industry, working the same number of hours and so on. If you look at these figures, you will find that they would be paid roughly the same. Moreover you will find that female graduates sometimes get paid better than their male counterparts. Many companies in male-dominated fields like IT want to attract female employees and are prepared to pay extra for them. Should men scream sexism?
When you say “now, women only make around 76 cents of a man’s dollar” such logic says that employers can hire women who are just as good, hard-working, qualified and prepared to work the same number of hours as men for 24% less. Are you seriously thinking that hard-nosed capitalist that move entire industries to third world countries to save on labour costs, would forgo a chance to slash their payroll costs by 24% by simply hiring women? Or that they are so sexist and wicked that they would rather pay a 24% more for labour than hire females? No. Such proposition doesn’t stand up to logic.
Jackie, while it is very tempting to look for evidence of sexism and disadvantage, there is very little evidence to objectively suggest that women are in fact disadvantaged. Most, if not all the difference in pay can be easily explained by the nature of work women do, the number of hours they choose to work and time women take off to have families. To put it differently, unless women do exactly the same jobs as men, work the same hours men do and stop having families, there will always be a difference in female wages compared to men.
Regards,
Latteologist
pie
Latteologist,
You’ll never convince any of these ladies by basing your arguments on statistics and numbers — women are TERRIBLE at understanding math.
Can I get a High Five!!
TR
TR,
Comments like that prove that sexism does exist and should be considered a valid issue in American society. What is “fair” and “just” about labeling all females as math-illiterate? Though that is a common misconception, I made an A in my calculus class and I am 100% female. The reason that women are STILL complaining about unfair wages is because it STILL exists. In a society of single mothers raising their children alone, the men who desert those women are paid more money. Even if I acknowledge that this discrepancy occurs because men can donate more time to the ofFice, I cannot acknowledge that it is fair or just in any sense of the word because there are strong, intelligent women all over the world that are forced into virtual slavery in order to provide for their children because we have a generation of men WHO WILL NOT OWN UP TO THEIR RESPONSIBILITIES!
Misty,
Thanks for you comment.
I would like to comment on what you wrote about single women. I agree that many men run away from their responsibilities leaving women to pick up the pieces. This is a great shame. Still, this is not a male conspiracy but the behaviour of private individuals (even though it seems increasingly common). What exactly can society as a whole do about this? Ban divorce? Force couples to stay together?
Interestingly, the womens’ rights and unfair pay agenda is mainly driven by the political left. Yet these are the same political parties that for years undermined the family unit by attacking religious, sexual and societal norms that traditionally underpinned strong marriages. They really want to have it both ways.
Latteologist
[...] above might in fact explain it all. But there’s been an interesting comment at another blog, Lattenomics, looking at the same [...]
You say “The only way to compare wages fairly is to look at a male and a female with the same qualifications, working in the same industry, working the same number of hours and so on. If you look at these figures, you will find that they would be paid roughly the same.”
Where are the statistics that support this statement? Without them, your argument is just speculation.
Darren,
See Chris’ comment below:
“The fact of the matter is that paying a woman with the same qualifications and same skills, less than a man is completely illegal (it’s a violation of the Civil Rights Act), and if this were happening across the employment board there would be enough lawsuits to make Lionel Hutz a billionaire”.
Is it likely that employers deliberately discriminate against women knowing full well they can be sued for doing so? I don’t think we need “statistics” to answer this question.
“In a society of single mothers raising their children alone, the men who desert those women are paid more money.”
Ask those men who are left financially destitute through maximized child support and alimony payments just how more well-off financially they are.
I ought to know–I was raised by a single mother, and my dad deliberately chose to live in poverty rather than bust his butt for a paycheck he would never see thanks to a judge and lawyer that went looking to squeeze him for every cent they could get.
The argument that women get deliberately paid less than men across the board is a patent falsehood that’s perpetuated by members of the victim-greivance class. The fact of the matter is that paying a woman with the same qualifications and same skills, less than a man is completely illegal (it’s a violation of the Civil Rights Act), and if this were happening across the employment board there would be enough lawsuits to make Lionel Hutz a billionaire.
Women and men alike need to accept the fact that if you aren’t going to put in the same hours and put the same effort into your job that others will (which often means several hours of overtime on top of that), then your salary is going to be lower. Work less, get paid less–this is not a hard concept to understand.
You’ve made a good point regarding to why women are paid less than men. I am a science and mathematics major and do rely on statistics; at the same time, I am aware that statistics can be misinterpreted at times.
The question is: If women tend to work less in their field, is it voluntary or involuntary? Do their employers refuse to give women their hours, or do they request them off?
At the same token, since men generally have greater physical strength, they may be asked to do some manual work whereas women are exempt from it. “Favors” are not written on paper, but are required by the employer.
Your argument is sound and valid, but I also would like to discuss further in the issue and take a look at what’s happening.
email me when your reply is posted, thanks!
now that women can sue for not making the same as men for the same job ( do male nurses make more then female? I remember that black nurse on ER saying “they don’t count”) that means they can pay the same insurance, support men and they certainly don’t need alimony. since they are the better parents and the equals and betters of men that means they can raise kids on their own and certainly the tax payers don’t need to support single mothers since they are perfectly capable of accepting responsbility for their decisions and are certainly the equal of men when facing the harsh realities of life aren’t they? since we believe in women being equal to men that means we can stop being chivalrous because that’s insulting and demeaning to women, implying the’re fragile, need to be defended, prizes to be won and need to be taken care of.
wow! TRUE EQUALITY!! Let’s go for it!! set the women free!:)
Sorry but the “good reasoning” behind why women get paid less than men is still ridiculous. Not every woman will have children and take time off to raise kids. If a woman worked the exact same amount a man did, she would STILL be paid less.
Then there is always the argument that a woman is expected to have a child and raise it without being paid a dime…but that’s a whole different issue.
Dear Miin,
Thanks for your comment. Are you be able to provide any factual evidence to your statement that “If a woman worked the exact same amount a man did, she would STILL be paid less”? Discrimination against women purely because they are women is illegal in most Western countries. I merely point out that disparity between male and female average earnings is easily explained by factors other than sexual discrimination.
Here is a website that explains why women are paid less. They explain that the 76% less figure is calculated when all other factors are the same, meaning that they compare men and women with the SAME jobs, working the SAME number of hours, and part-timers/stay-at-home moms are not included.
So, if we consider factors like women having to work in lower paying jobs and working part-time, the gap would be much greater than the 76 cent difference.
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2005/10/09/the_wage_gap/
Hi Anna,
Thanks for your comment. You claim that the article compares “men and women with the SAME jobs, working the SAME number of hours, and part-timers/stay-at-home moms are not included”. It does not do such thing.
At best it talks about “women working full time — not part-time, not on maternity leave, not as consultants” and “the wages of women who are staying home with the kids or working part time are not counted in that official Labor Department average: Only full-time workers’ wages are added in”.
As you can appreciate, this doesn’t exclude women who ever had children. As I explained earlier, even if we look at a male and a female of the same age with exactly the same education working in the same profession, the female would be disadvantaged if she at some point has children. Why? Because of the total duration of time spent in the workforce.
For a woman raising two children can mean being out of work force for anything up to 5 years and more. In such scenario, let’s say a man and a woman with exactly the same qualifications start their careers at exactly the same time. After 15 years in the workforce, the male would have 15 years of experience while female would have only 10 because she took 5 years off to raise children. Which worker would get a promotion and better pay? The one with 10 years of experience or 15?
This experience gap cannot be waived away by female equality outreach it is real and it is entirely justifiable and logical. Why shouldn’t the person with more experience get promoted or get more money for their experience? On the other hand if we want to reach the magic Nirvana of gender pay equality women can give up having kids completely. Would that make world a more fair place?
Latteologist
My Wife makes 25% less at our job, and has the exact previous work history as me. We graduated with the same degree at the same time from the same university and work in the same building doing the same exact thing for the same company as coworker with the same seniority. How do you explain that?
Did your wife take any time off to have children? Do you both work exactly the same number of hours? Is your wife as good as you are at her job (now be honest)?
If the answer to question 1 is “no”, and 2 and 3 “yes”, I would sue your employer for discrimination.
cool
discrimination
It is hard for me to believe the statistic that women are still paid less than men. It is my belief that across the board, compensation of men and women weight itself out equally. Let me give you an example at various levels and albeit this is only one place grant you. The CFO at my company (male) makes $320k + bonus and options. The Sr. Vice President of Marketing (female) makes $320k + bonus and options. The Sr. Vice President of Operations (male) makes $290k + bonus and options.
Administrative assistants’ (females) make anywhere from $5k a year less than I to $40k a year more than I. They have a high school education but no college education. I have a Bachelors and MBA (whoopeee). We have women in IT who make $25k a year to $100k a year more than I and they only have Associates degrees. The men and women in our IT department are paid equally across the board for the given positions. So to hear that women are paid less than men is what I BULLSHIT. Plain BULLSHIT!
After reading a few comments on a news site about inequality in the workplace I decided to do a search to find any proof of it occurring, I am glad I found this to logically break it down for me.
I spent six years in the Air Force and many female service members have children, and get weeks to months off of work, while all the evil males are still working. Not to mention the amount of money required by insurance companies for females compared to single males.
I’m not really serious about the compensation for not having a child in the military, but I wonder if benefits are taken into account by the ones propagating the idea of inequality
Equal payment WOULD NOT cause role reversals and the defense that “we would have men acting like women and women acting like men” is completely ridiculous seeing as how that’s already the case in many countries.
just Suck it Up Or do something about it Blogging or posting comments will not change anything Either Deal with it or Try to change it GET A LIFE.
you never know. someone important could read this and relize how unfair the world really is.
First young male doctors may work more hours but they do so in a job that pays them salary. T hus, there is no direct correlation between the hours that many men work and the salary they receive. Secondly, both work structures and family oriented structures must change. your explanations do not separate themselves from sexism and the patriarchy. They are just a part of the larger system. Women work more at home because it is presumed that women will do more of the nurturing in households. Companies do not organize themselves so that they will respect both family and work life balance and thus have protected a male dominated sphere by saying I pay him more because he is here more. She is off partner track because she went home to watch kids. We must begin to think differently (and we have in some respects) about how parenting works and organize office to replace it.
This was an excellent read, thanks for posting it.
women are GREAT at math. that is why we have relized that men get paid more than men. duh!! anyway, women should get paid the same amount as men. if not more. (single mothers) you could have one woman working the same job as a man and the same hours. the woman might earn less. even if its just by $.10, it will affect her in the long run. please rethink your answer and ask some working women how much they earn, then compare to a list of men. and then tell me why they earn more than us.
ps you will NOT get a high 5 from any female.
Who wrote this?
look up the statistics women get paid 77 cents to a man’s dollar in the same job…hello there is a wage gap read Evelyn’s Murphy article